Child Maintenance HELP!!

[Kiwilass]

My partner and I live in NZ and he pays R4000 to his ex-wife in Sth Africa each month for maintenance for his 2 children (aged 7 & 5). This is approx half his monthly salary. He has asked several times for her to provide copies of statements, bills etc so he can see exactly what his money is going towards but she refuses to provide them. She is now demanding an extra 1000R a month. My partner does not want his children to go without, but he also does not want to pay for his wife and her new partner to go to the pub! Can anyone advise us on what the "normal" maintenance amount is?? Is it a percentage of your salary? And does she have the right to demand more and more money without showing what it is for?
Thanx

[ChalmD]

She doesn't have the right to demand money without showing what it is for. so was your partner ordered to pay the R4000 by court? Half of his monthly salary seems to be much to me, I would say it's normally less because he has to pay for rent, living, etc.

[jpet]

Take it to the maintainance court. You are paying too much. I know it hurts you that your children might be affected, but there are ways around that. When I returned to SA on holiday, I would spoil him rotten, and buy him those things which his peers had. that way it also makes him/her aware that things are coming from you. If there were no such thing as child maintainance, I wonder how many mothers would want to have custody of the children. DON'T GIVE IN TO HER!!!!!!!

[jpet]

What ex-wives forget is that they are also responsible for 50% of the child's expenses. OK so this is how I reckon what you should pay
School fees ( I googled a top school in CPT ) Fees R15 000 pa = R1250 pm divided by 2 + R 625 pm
Food and extra expenses R2000 pm divided by 2 + R1000 pm
Now no child is going to use this allocation for food, but it includes clothing etc, and don't be fooled when it comes to school uniform time, mothers must budget for this.
So In my humble opinion R1625 per child is sufficient, but make it R2000. SO DON'T PAY MORE, YOU ARE PAYING TOO MUCH IN THE FIRST PLACE. SHE/IT HAS TO REMEMBER THAT SHE/IT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HALF OF THE EXPENSES... SOMETHING THEY QUICKLT SEEM TO FORGET.

[Kiwilass]

Thanks guys for your helpful replies. We certainly won't be paying the ex anymore than what she is currently receiving.

[born-to-survive]

I agree with jpet - each partner is responsible for half of the total expenses for child care. It often happens that the ex-wife milks the ex-husband dry and forgets that he too has to go on with his life which includes a new wife and / or children.

[cooldudesa001]

Jpet's calculation is a good start, but it falls short I think. You need to include rent, electricity, transport, medical aid etc. It also depends on the income of the mother as every parent should contribute proportionally according to his/her income. In my opinion R4000 pm for two kids is not high, granted it can be afforded by the father. If the mother compiles an expense list or budget, he could end up worse. The court will also look upon him a a single person with less expenses than the mother.

[Alexthelion]

I am going through the same dilemma. My ex is demanding an awful lot in child support. It seems that since we separated the children now go to a top private school in cape town and the fees are around R3500 per month! So I think your estimate of R15,000 a year needs revising.

Ufortunately there are two systems to consider here; SA & NZ:

IN SA, i believe, as far as living expenses are concerned, the household bills should be split as per 2 units per adult and 1 unit per child, with the school related fees entirely on the child, and then the child's portion split between the two of you. This would involve her disclosing all expenses, if she doesn't, then tough.

Did you know that non-custodian fathers (parents) now have the right to determine how their children are raised & to decide on expenses in respect of the child.

In New Zealand, the system seems easier. Child maintenance for that country is tabled by the IRD according to the Child Support Act - check it out on their website. For 2 children it should be around 24% of your net salary. However I am sure this amount can be disputed if you go to family court.

There is no reciprocal arrangement with SA from NZ to enforce maintenance (unlike Australia) unless the spouse brings a civil case in the family court in NZ, in which case you could prove that you have been paying child support according to your country of residence and that (hopefully) should be acceptable by a South African Court too.

Does anyone have any experience of this?

I believe that you should always provide for your children as best you can in a fair and equitable way. The emphasis being on equitable. Courts do not seem to accept the argument that you want to maintain your children as best you can, but you also need to maintain a separate home. Unfortunately too many people use child maintenance and child access as a revenge tactic.

[whatdog23]

Hi I'd just like to find out if my ex-wife has a case against me for an increase in maintenance- My child is 11 years old - I pay R2000 cash maintenance per month, her school fees, all medical expenses, have an education plan for her which I have paid for 8 years, the security company that guards the house is also part of my payment. This works out to about R3500 in total per month. Also I paid of my wife's bond for the last eight years(this house belonged to my ex before I met her and she has never had to pay for it since the divorce - The house is now paid off completely so she owes nothing to the bank and only has to pay the normal rates, electricity, water etc). My ex is now demanding more money and has even threatened to sue my parents for money(they are both pensioners with a combined income of about R7000 per month.
My ex-wife has stopped me seeing my child for over two years now - I should be seeing my child every fortnight- before you say that I should enforce my rights she has told my child that her father wishes to have her mother locked up in jail for not allowing him to see her(when you hear your child screaming in fear that her mother is going to go to jail you just can't go through with it) She also made subtle allegations about sexual abuse(I was really afraid that she would try to slander me in this way which would have damaged my life and my child's forever) I tried to counter this by insisting my child sleep in her own room at night rather than in my bed which was never my plan to which my ex said that my child was afraid to sleep alone and the only reason that I wanted my child to sleep alone was so that I could entertain a woman in my own bed.During the eight years of divorce my child has only ever met one woman that I had a long term relationship with. I have tried to protect her from this and will only introduce her to someone if I think that we have a future together. My child has been to almost every activity in gauteng ranging from the Zoo to museums, play parks, theatre etc - one day per weekend was always set aside for an outing(my ex tried to hijack this too by telling me where to to take my child on weekends!) My ex has also sent me sms warning me that if I ever get a new wife/partner/child she will expect more money from me because I'll have an extra income to share expenses. I am self employed and earn between R10000 to R12000 per month depending on the situation - I have never missed a maintenance payment and have often contribute to birthday parties etc and had up until last year given my ex wife R1000 every xmas to buy my child gifts on her behalf( i buy my own gifts also )
Please help as sometimes I just feel so hopeless that I'd like to give up as I feel so abused as my ex knows that I will always try to help and she uses guilt as a weapon (I feel guilty that I was not able to give my child a two parent home regardless of how hard I tried- we split because of personality clashes not because of infidelity and I wanted to protect my child from the horror of seeing her parents fighting all the time)

[Yana_Ann]

Hi whatdog23

Proof Proof Proof!

Have you ever been to Maintenance Court or have you only made your arrangements and payments personally and directly with your ex wife?

I believe she is taking you to the cleaners.

Each parent is expected to pay half of the costs of the child - What does she put in towards this?

DO NOT MAKE CASH PAYMENTS WITH NO PROOF.

Suggestions:
Do EFT's or make her sign for any cash which you hand over to her and KEEP the records.
Go and see the Maintenance Officer at your court ASAP and obtain advice - take all your doc's with you and a list of expenses, both your living, income, payments and as much of the ex's as possible.

You used to be able to arrange to pay your maintenace to her through the court - which meant that she would have to go each month to the court cash hall and stand in the queue to collect her cash. . . . Not sure if they still do that though.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Cheers
Yana_Ann


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[whatdog23]

hI thx for the input - luckily i do transfer all cash except xmas money via eft - most months the money is in her account by the 3rd of the month(it only has to be there at the end of the month but I pay earlier to relieve pressure on myself at month end) At present my ex wife owes me app R17000 rands as she never ever paid home insurance on her bond and it was passed on to me but I've zero chance of getting any money from her!! I will make an appointment with the Maintence Officer and see if I can get some relief - I thought getting divorced would be liberating but infact it is hell as you never seem to be able to escape the conflict that drove you apart in the first place!!!!

[Yana_Ann]

Hi whatdog23

Pleasure, hope it helps. Not sure where you are but I know from experience that the Wynberg CT court is very good and I am sure the others are too.

Very importantly though just remember the following:
1) DO NOT go in there with "attitude" and be extremely patient.

2) Spend this weekend getting ALL your doc's in order - ALL of your income & living expenses (within reason) AND your maintenance and other payments. Don't forget your original divorce decree.

3) Arrange all your doc's so that it is easier for the M.Officer to understand as quickly as possible. Realise that you KNOW the story but for an outsider to get a handle on the situation, it is not easy.
(Paint the picture)

4) Be humble and ask them for their help. and when you feel like exploding, as this is a very emotional situation, don't!

5) If you were to go through an attorney, he is going to have to do the same thing AND charge you the earth for it AND there is nobody better to put your story across than yourself .

The court can re-instate / order her to give you your visitation rights.

The premise is that BOTH parents HAVE to put in an equal share.
The problem is that generally, the receiving party often lives above the standard of the paying party and expects the paying party to pay accordingly.

My personal opinion is that you can kiss your R17000 Goodbye but show that proof as well - it will help to "paint the picture".

A further idea, depending on the title owner of the property, payment thereof etc - ask the Maintenance Officer whether there is a way that you can possibly put the property into your daughters name with a clause which states that your ex may reside in the property till a certain age
and / or unless she remarries.
This would be a separate issue which you could attack after you are sorted as far as the immediate issue is concerned.

Good Luck - Keep us posted.

Have a Great Weekend "sorting" - OK you can take a break to watch the rugby!

GO BOKKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hudsonkzn]

Hi everyone.

Some great help so far thank you.

I have a question, which I cannot find an answer to anywhere on the net.

My uncle has 2 illegitimate children , and has been paying maintenance for years now. He is currently receiving a Government Dissability Grant of R1000.00p/m. He has no other source of income. The children are 35 and 19 respectively. He also has children from his current marriage, whom are all self sufficient adults. He pays the entire R1000 towards maintenance as his daughter supports him and provides him with a place to stay.

He recently received a Summons to appear in court, as the childrens mom is sueing him for an increase in maintenance.

He is 67 yrs old.

Surely there must be some law against someone on a government grant paying maintenance?

He is also afraid to defend this in court, because his ex wife has threatened to make his current children pay his maintenance? Is that legal?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[Bradup]

Going to court may just turn out positive for him and perhaps even have the maintenance reduced or set aside completely if he goes there prepared.

The post above by Yana_Ann are providing some very good information.

[H-Bomb]

If your uncle has 2 children aged 35 and 19 he shouldn't have to pay any maintenance at all. These children are considered adults - aren't they working??? Why has no-one ever checked this out?? As far as I'm concerned your uncle is being manipulated by threats which have no basis in fact. Tell him to go to court - she'll be the loser !!!